KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: America's mental health crisis. More Americans say they are depressed and struggling.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Let's get all Americans the mental health services they need.
KRISTEN WELKER:
My conversation with Democratic Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, who opens up about his battle with depression.
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
I really scared my kids and they thought, "You won, Dad. Why aren't we enough? Why are you still so sad?”
KRISTEN WELKER:
Were there moments when you were there seeking treatment when you started to lose hope?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
I felt like there wasn’t any hope sometimes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
His message on why seeking treatment saved his life and why he hopes sharing his story will help others come out of the darkness he experienced.
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
As long as you stop the conversation and agree that you're never going to harm yourself, then you have hope.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Plus: searching for solutions. As the nation sees a rise in suicides and drug overdoses, what more can be done to help? And what role does social media play?
GOV. SPENCER COX:
Every research institution that has looked at this is pointing to social media as the cause.
KRISTEN WELKER:
A bipartisan conversation on the path forward to improve mental health care with Republican Governor Spencer Cox of Utah and Democratic Governor Jared Polis of Colorado. And a special panel of experts on the frontlines of this crisis: former Democratic Congressman Patrick Kennedy of Rhode Island, Dr. Shairi Turner, Chief Health Officer of the Crisis Text Line and activist and podcast host Victoria Garrick Browne. Welcome to Sunday and a special edition of Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is a special edition of Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. The U.S. surgeon general calls it the defining public health crisis of our time: Mental health. One in five adults experience mental illness every year. Depression rates are at an all-time high. A third of adults report being diagnosed with depression sometime during their lifetimes – a figure that is rising. Nearly 50,000 Americans died by suicide last year, more than any year on record. The president says we are falling short.
[START TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
In 2020, less than half – less than half of all adults with mental illness diagnosis receive care for it. Less than half. For children, the numbers are even worse. Nearly 70% of our kids who seek care for mental health or addiction cannot get it. For all those brave enough and strong enough to seek help – and I mean that – brave enough and strong enough to seek help, we have to do better.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
In 2021, more than 12 million American adults thought about suicide. 1.7 million attempted it. The youth mental health crisis is overwhelming emergency rooms. Nearly 60% of high school girls reported persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness. And for our nation's veterans, the crisis line is fielding a record number of cries for help. This morning, in a special broadcast on the nation's mental health crisis, we will have a conversation about all of it. How do we talk about mental health? How do we access treatment and care? And maybe most importantly, how do we pay for it? We start with Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman. Barely a month into his service in Washington, after experiencing a stroke in May of last year, the senator checked himself into Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in February for clinical depression. I sat down with him in his Senate office.
[START TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Fetterman, welcome to Meet the Press. Thank you for being here.
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Thank you..
KRISTEN WELKER:
When did you first realize that you were struggling deeply with depression?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Oh, that – that started – that started – I got into the – fully in life, that was the first time when I entered the race, and that would have been in January of – of '21. That it was just in a lot of pressure, and a lot of stress, and everything, and just kind of like a slow burn, how it kept going along, along, along. And I knew that my health was continued to deteriorate. And then, after the stroke hit, then I was on the other side, and it was a different kind of a challenge, because I knew that everything and anything is going to be weaponized by the other side.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you describe this as a watershed moment. At what point did you know you needed real help, that you needed to check yourself into a hospital?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
At that point, I was able to keep myself some in check, where it's like I can hold myself together until the election. But that was October 25th, and the election was, I think, November 8th, so I was able to kind of keep myself enough to keep my – together. And then, after the election, that's when things actually accelerated and got worse. And, at that point, I wasn't able to leave bed. And my kids, I really scared my kids, and they thought, "You won, Dad. Why aren't we enough? Why are you still so sad? Why are you even more sad?" And it was hard for – to explain why I was. And, of course, a nine-year-old child wouldn't understand that. And it was – it was awful, and that's when it was – continued to get more and more intense. And I pleaded not to go down to DC for kind of the orientation, in the middle of November. And was – I tried to explain. I'm like, "Look, I'm probably going to need some – some time to – to get better." And that's where I was at.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How did you make that decision? Where did you find the strength to say, "I'm going to actually check myself in to Walter Reed?”
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Oh, okay, Walter Reed is that there was nowhere else to go. And this is a conversation that I've had with myself and anybody that allows – or that are unable to address their depression, is they start to have dark conversations with themself about self – self-harm. And things continued to kind of tick off the – the – the list. And then I kind of hit the emergency brake to really forgo – for further along that was like, "I can't be – I can’t be a blueprint for my children. I can't let them be left alone or not to understand why he would have done that." And earlier in the year, two – two friends of mine, one had a stroke, and the other one had a bad heart attack, and they both have young children. And they – they took their lives, and it was – it was very devastating. And – and not because they were weak, or I was strong, or whatever. It was just I got lucky. And – and I knew – I knew I needed help. I didn't know what that really looked like, but it was presented, and I reluctantly kind of was like, "Oh, no. I don't need to go – to go in there," but figured out that, yes, this is the right choice. And that's where I ended up.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I know this is so hard to talk about, but just to be clear about what you're saying, you're saying that you had thoughts of harming yourself?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Yeah. Yeah, I had – I've had that – I’ve said that publicly. And at first, I didn't. I thought, at the time, "If I can be of most service or I can be helpful to people, it's like I have to be fully honest about it." And that's what I decided to do. And it would be my goal is to – if – if somebody could hear this kind of a message and this conversation that we're having, might make a different choice.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you did have a team around you, a family around you who loved you very much – who loves you very much.
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Yeah. We have –
KRISTEN WELKER:
You describe a bit of an intervention.
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Mm-hmm.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What did they say to you to make you – get you to make that final step to go and actually get help, to check yourself in for treatment?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
They just said that we really – they were very – it just really got to that – that fork in the road. And it was like, "I have no idea what life would look like if I don't take – take advantage of this amazing opportunity," or, "What could possibly happen, and I could maybe even get better," even though I didn't think I could get better. So, I decided, I'm like, "Well I'll take – take the chance."
KRISTEN WELKER:
You also took the chance to speak publicly about it. How worried were you about sharing, about being honest about what you were really going through?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Well, when – when it got released that where I was and where it was going, it was – it was a big story. And so, I had assumed that that would be the end of my career. And I don't know what that – what kind of impact that would have on my family or anything. So, I – I really didn't know what would happen at that point.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Were you scared?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Yeah. I was desolate for – for the first couple weeks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Can you talk about what it was like those first few days of being in treatment?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Just meeting with people there and meeting other people that were there, as well. And my – my family would visit, my brothers would – would visit. And I really – I wasn’t really – I wasn’t – I didn't like to have a lot of conversations. I just kind of wanted to just be left alone and just stay in bed.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Were there ever moments when you were there seeking treatment when you started to lose hope?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Yeah, every – every days that end with – end with Y. You know, it’s a – it’s a depression joke. No, it's every day. Every day, I felt like there wasn't any hope sometimes and like, "What do I have left?" And feeling like there was no hope is what kind of drove me to that place. And that's why I want people to know that no matter how bad it might think or look right now, I'm begging you, it's not that bad. It's not that bad. And even if you think that's true, hold on. Just, you've got to hold on. And you can't imagine how much better it can get if you make the investment and the commitment to just hold that line and work to get better on that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What should people who are suffering with depression know about the treatment that you've received? What was it like every day? Was it a grueling process? Was it a hopeful process?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Yeah, well to anyone that's feeling that right now, it's like, "I'm – I’m one of yours.” And I know how – how much pain it is, and I don't really see it more different of a – of a health challenge like cancer or heart – although I have heart – I have heart challenges, too. And so – but it's real. And somebody may not look at you physically. It's like having nothing wrong physically, but you can't get out of bed. It's a real thing, and something is wrong with you, but it's something that needs to be addressed. And if you don't address it, you run the risk of – of the very dark conversation with yourself. And that you have to promise yourself that you must never, ever, ever harm yourself. And if you're able to make that promise to yourself and to your family and to people that you love, and then that allows you to, "Okay, that's off, so now I can face the depression and some of these other issue." And you know that you're able to deal with it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you've talked about the fact that you made a choice in that moment. What was the choice that you made?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
That made – it wasn't so there was a choice made to me. It was more of kind of like a life. A life that I thought was gone, it was actually still there. And that gave me the kind of joy, that this idea that, "I – I – I get a second chance. I'm able to – I’m able to be part of their lives again, and I'm able to get back into my life." And that gave me something to really double up my – my effort to really get – get – get together.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Your doctors advised you to stay off of social media. How important was that to your recovery?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Oh, everybody told me to. Everybody does. Anybody walking down the corner, I'm sure, would – would say, "Yeah, stay off social media." And I made the mistake. I had stayed off of it, but I made the mistake of – to check it out. And I think it was either somewhere in late November, early December of '22. And then, it was kind of like, "Oh, wow. Wow." And it wasn't the things said, because I assume that those were, but it was the volume. The volume. Just the like, "Where is this coming from? Where can there be so much of this?" And it's like, "Is this what be the rest of my life?" It's like, "Look what it's done to me." And, more importantly, "What has this done to my family?" And you know my – my kids are afraid to go back, and they left social media behind and – and we’re stopped posting family pictures and things like that. It's just astonishing that so many people want to take the time to hop online and to say things to a stranger that never did anything to you, especially members of my family.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think that social media may have made your depression worse at the time?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Oh, yeah. Anybody. It's an – it’s an accelerant, absolutely.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you back on it?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Am I back on it? Selectively. Maybe if – to post something. But I don't go around like, "Hey, let me find something,” really. You know that, yeah, there's going to be some mean things being said or whatever. I just – I don't have to verify it myself. I just assume it's going on. And I would just warn anybody that social media – I've never noticed anyone to believe that their health – their mental health has been supported by spending any kind of time on social media. And if they do, I'd love to meet that person, you know, who that is.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's go back to your recovery. At a certain point, the medical team came to you and said you were in remission. What was that –
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Oh, wow.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– moment like?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
It's amazing you use that exact word. Yes, absolutely. The – the lead doctor sat down, and I was thinking, "Okay, what's this?" And he's like, "We've concluded your depression is in remission." And I was like, "Really? Really?" And it was to me, it felt like, "You're getting pardoned," or you’re – you’re kind of like, "Really? Really?" Because I had no idea. I had – I didn't know how long I would be there or, you know, "Do people – do people observe the same things that I feel, and how I'm feeling differently, you know, inside?" And then, when that was validated, it was another kind of like, "Wow, really?" And that was kind of like the second part of the one-two punch that really allowed me to fully just get together and realize that I do have a life to come back to.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What was it like once you left and you started reentering life?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
I think it's just more – I remind myself just how grateful I am. It's really just grateful. And anyone that has – have put themselves up to the brink and realized just how awful it feels, and it's so, so dark and awful, that to be able to get that close to it to know, I don’t ever – will ever get back to that. I will never allow myself to come back to that. And I've had a lot of challenges here over the year. My father, over the summer, he just collapsed in the kitchen and was – died for 20 minutes, and was on a ventilator and in a coma. And I got the message, actually, walking out of this very room that we're in right now. And I found out what happened, and I jumped in the car, and I drove up to my parents' house in York. And I visited my father, unconscious in the hospital. And that was – I'd never had a chance to have a conversation with him. But my father would visit again, and again, and again to me at Walter Reed. But now, it was my duty and honor to visit with him. And despite after such a catastrophic heart attack, he now is back and made a virtual 100% recovery.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just finally, Senator, you could have tried to deal with this by not being completely honest about everything you were going through. Why has it been so important for you to be 100% honest with the American public, with your constituents, about your health journey over this past year?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
It's a – it’s a risk that I wanted to take, because I wanted to help people and know that I don't want them to suffer the way – or put any kinds of despair that I've been in. And if that conversation helps, then that’s – I'm going to continue to do that.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Our thanks to the senator for that conversation. If you are struggling, the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline has support. Call or text 988 to connect with a crisis counselor, or visit 988lifeline.org. When we come back, is social media to blame for our children's mental health? Republican Governor Spencer Cox of Utah and Democratic Governor Jared Polis of Colorado join me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. A bipartisan group of 42 state attorneys general is suing Meta, arguing the social media company designed features on Instagram and other apps to purposefully addict children and teens. Up to 95% of teens 13 to 17 report using a social media platform, with more than a third saying they use social media almost constantly. Joining me now are the chair and vice chair of the National Governors Association, Republican Governor Spencer Cox of Utah and Democratic Governor Jared Polis of Colorado. Their “Disagree Better” initiative is an effort to encourage civil dialogue among leaders. Welcome to Meet the Press, both of you.
GOV. SPENCER COX:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let’s start by talking –
GOV. JARED POLIS:
Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is great to have you both here. Let's start by talking about the youth mental health crisis. The surgeon general, as you know, has called it the defining public health issue of our time. Governor Cox, I want to start with you. Do you agree with the surgeon general?
GOV. SPENCER COX:
I absolutely agree with the surgeon general. And I want to give a quick shout-out to Governor Phil Murphy of New Jersey, who was the former chair of the National Governors Association, who took this issue on as his initiative for a year. We absolutely believe this is the issue of our time. We have seen a 63% increase in persistent loneliness and sadness among young women especially over the past ten to 12 years in the state of Utah. We have seen, again, suicide rates going up, depression, anxiety, self-harm rates skyrocketing. And what we know also is it corresponds with social media becoming ubiquitous and cell phones becoming ubiquitous with our teenagers. Those numbers you cited from the surgeon general are deeply troubling and really sad. We have to take control of this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We are going to talk about social media, and I appreciate your bringing it up. But Governor Polis, let me just have you weigh in on how the surgeon general has characterized the enormity of this crisis.
GOV. JARED POLIS:
Well, I think people of all ages are facing increased pressure and stress from a lot of causes, especially coming out of the pandemic. In Colorado, we have an I Matter program that provides free counseling sessions for every student in our schools. And we've had over 51,000 sessions with young people, who often don't know where to turn and don't know how to access the professional help they need to avoid depression, anxiety, risk of self-harm. We think it's helping, but the need is great to make sure that people of all ages have access to the mental health support services they need to thrive.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's talk about social media as it relates to our youth. Governor Cox, you have put a lot of blame, as you just did here, on social media. And in fact, Utah became the first state in the nation to actually pass legislation designed to limit teens' use of social media. Why do you think that was the right move, and what do you think it's accomplished so far?
GOV. SPENCER COX:
Look, again, we want to be data driven in all of this. So we've been working with experts across the country, the smartest people that have looked at all of the data, all of the research, and have concluded -- and again, I think it's obvious to anyone who spends any time on social media or has kids -- I have four kids. I've seen what's happened to them as they've spent time on social media, and their friends – that this is absolutely causing these terrible increases, these hockey stick-like increases that we are seeing in anxiety, depression and self-harm amongst our youth. By the way, it's bad for adults too, but especially bad for our young people. And so, look, if you saw a 63% increase in cancer amongst young women in our country, we would be moving heaven and earth to do anything possible to change that. And yet, we've kind of just sat on our hands and said, "Well, I guess this is the new normal." That's unacceptable in Utah. And so we passed the most aggressive legislation in the country to hold social media companies accountable. We're still in the process of implementing that. We've sued Meta. We've sued TikTok. We’re taking a page – they've taken a page, sadly, out of the tobacco lobby. They know this is harming our kids. They're covering it up. They're doing everything possible to take advantage of our kids for their own gain. And we're not going to stand for that. And so we – we're still pushing forward. We don't know what the results are yet, but we're confident we're going to do everything we can to protect our kids.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor Cox, is there anything to be gained from social media? For example, could kids find a sense of community there? Could they find a sense of identity there? Do you see any upside to it?
GOV. SPENCER COX:
Sure. Yes. There's definitely upside to social media when used properly and in the correct ways. But see, that's not how these apps are designed. And that's the problem. They're designed to addict our kids very intentionally. And these addictive features make it impossible for our kids to get the upside, the benefit out of that, without all of the downside. And again, the access that they get to just terrible content, the rabbit holes that they end up going down, these algorithms that are destroying lives. And so somebody has to – somebody has to step in. We're not trying to ban social media completely from our kids. That's not what we're trying to do. We're trying to make it safe for our kids.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor Polis, would you be open to more restrictions on social media in your state?
GOV. JARED POLIS:
I think the responsibility belongs with parents, not the government. I have a 12-year-old and a nine-year-old. We don't allow them on social media yet. We'll be having the conversation with our 12-year-old son soon, and in an appropriate way, allowing him to access that. But I think really fundamentally, the state can't be the parents for kids. I certainly agree with the diagnosis that Governor Cox did, and I have some sympathy for that approach. But I do think at the end of the day, the government can't parent kids. It's really up to the responsibility of parents to step up. And I think it's, in many ways, an educational effort for outreach to parents. Many parents don't understand the full threat of different social media for their kids. And I think more parents need to step up and take on that responsibility.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about a recent study by the CDC which found students who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or non-heterosexual are about two times more likely than their heterosexual peers to feel persistently sad or hopeless. And almost one in four attempted suicide during this previous year. Governor Polis, how big of a crisis is that? How do you address that piece of this?
GOV. JARED POLIS:
So first on this, in your question to Governor Cox about the upside of social media, there's a great potential for finding community there. Imagine growing up the only gay kid in a conservative, rural community, thinking you're the only person in the world, and finding that there are others like you, facing the same issues you face, being able to work through those issues with them. So there are upsides for this community. But there's also a need to show that we, you know, accept and love everybody. Schools educate everybody, regardless of who you are or who you love in every part of the state, every part of the country, and that we need to make sure we meet the learning needs and the social, emotional needs of every student.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Governor Cox, Utah has joined 21 other states across the country banning gender-affirming care for minors, including hormone treatments. What do you say to members of the medical community, families, kids who identify as being transgender who say that this type of gender-affirming care actually helps, benefits their mental health, makes them feel less sad and less depressed?
GOV. SPENCER COX:
Well, I would say that there's still debate in the medical community about whether or not that's actually true. And so we put a pause on those surgeries and those hormone therapies until we can get more information, until that debate can be better settled, that we're not actually doing more harm to these young people than good. I want to respond to something that Governor Polis said because I think it's important. I too believe that parents should be responsible for social media. And it's the parents who are asking us for help. They're desperate to get more help because what these companies have done have found ways to get around parents. And so what we're providing are more tools for parents. We're not trying to, as government, to parent these kids. We want parents to actually have control over what their kids are able to do with social media.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to end on a personal note with both of you. And Governor Cox, I'll start with you because you just, hopefully, heard my conversation with Senator Fetterman. The male suicide rate is four times higher than it is for women, and men make up about 80% of all suicides. And Governor Cox, you've talked about experiencing suicidal thoughts when you were younger. Can you share with us, what do you think made the difference for you?
GOV. SPENCER COX:
Yeah. I have. And I want to be just very open and transparent with this. When I was a teenager, my parents got divorced. I was really struggling. I thought the world would be a better place without me. And I was very fortunate to be surrounded by good people, good friends, good family who cared deeply about me and got me the help that I needed. And here's what I want to say: As dark as it was at that time, I am so glad I stayed. And to anybody listening out there, teenagers, men, women, anybody, we need you to stay. There is help available. 988. You can call that help line right now. Please, please stay. We need all of you. Life is worth living, and it does get better. It gets so much better.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor Polis, I want to give you the last word on this. And we know that suicide by firearms is also increasing. What is your message to people who are struggling in this new year?
GOV. JARED POLIS:
And there are small things that policy can do to help. We added a waiting period in Colorado, three days, to purchase a weapon at least to help eliminate those impulse suicides, get people to think about it, guns being one of the major tools that are used in suicide. But I think the key thing is destigmatizing it, talking about it. You know, we all know people in our lives that ended their lives that way. My best childhood friend's brother committed suicide. And I think the first thing to do is to talk about it because for too long, suicide was swept under the rug, not discussed. People were left to suffer alone in their own silos. And I think breaking down those barriers, having that discussion, making sure people have access to the help they need when they need it is a critical piece of reducing the suicide rate.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, this is such an important conversation, such critical information. Governors Cox and Polis, thank you both so much for sharing your very personal perspectives and also policy perspectives on this. Thank you. And when we come back, we have a special panel of experts on the frontlines of this crisis. The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. We have an expert panel joining us: former Congressman Patrick Kennedy, author of “A Common Struggle: A Personal Journey Through the Past and Future of Mental Illness and Addiction,” and founder of The Kennedy Forum; Dr. Shairi Turner, Chief Health Officer of the Crisis Text Line; and Victoria Garrick Browne, founder of The Hidden Opponent and host of “REAL POD.” Thank you all so much for being here for this really important conversation. Congressman Kennedy, I want to start with you. You have been open about your struggles with addiction, and you write about the fact that your late father, the late Senator Ted Kennedy, was not pleased with your decision to speak out. How did you push past that fear, and why was it important to share your story?
FMR. REP. PATRICK J. KENNEDY:
Well, like a lot of his generation, these were very shameful issues. He suffered terribly from the trauma of seeing both of his brothers assassinated, and you know, my mother suffered from terrible alcoholism. And it wasn't anything we felt we could address, because frankly, it's still the attitude that we can't really fix this problem. And that's the difference between our attitudes from yesterday to today. We can make an enormous difference. We can reduce the number of suicides, dramatically, if we have this as a public health approach. We could reduce overdoses. We had 200,000 overdoses last year. We never kept in touch with any one of them, and 90% of those people are the ones that are successful later on in overdosing. Why don't we wrap our arms around those people? We know their illnesses, we follow them right outside the ER and make sure that they're properly taken care of, we employ chronic-based care. But in addiction and suicide and major depression, it's acute episodic treatment. In other words, we don't deal with these issues as chronic illnesses. And furthermore, we don't pay for these illnesses as chronic-based illnesses. And finally, we basically don't pay. There's a reason, as a pediatrician, Dr. Turner, that there is a 1000% likelihood that you're going to be out of network if your child's seeing a childhood mental health provider, versus any other illness where they would find it in network. And that means families have to pay a lot more to get the care for their kids. Let alone pay cash, which tragically, is the way most people pay for this care.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And we are going to delve into that issue: the lack of access to healthcare. I do want to stay on basically the big point that you're making: there's no national plan to deal with this crisis. And Victoria, you obviously have been active in the effort to de-stigmatize mental health. You've talked about your own struggles with depression and anxiety when you were an athlete – Division I – in college. What is your message to people, and what should they take from your struggle?
VICTORIA GARRICK BROWNE:
You know, I think there are so many more students now, athletes as well, struggling with mental health than we know. And personally, for me, I felt like I had checked the boxes I was supposed to check: Going to this prestigious college, getting these grades, having a starting spot. We won a PAC-12 championship. Everything on paper and on my social media looked picture perfect, yet I was the lowest I had ever been mentally. And I wasn't prepared to experience those emotions, because the conversation around mental health was so stigmatized that I viewed it as a weakness. And for someone who wanted to be an overachiever, wanted to succeed, you know, in societal terms, associating with weakness or feeling like I maybe would fail in some way if I admitted I was struggling, I didn't want to do that. And that prevented me from seeking help. Eventually, I got to this point where I felt I had nowhere else to turn. I'm grateful I confided in one teammate. That gave me the confidence to then see a counselor for the first time. And then from there, I began learning about the insane pressure all students are under, that it wasn't just me that was this shameful outlier who should feel embarrassed, but really, this was a major crisis. And that's really what led me to the advocacy work I do now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And that's the power of finding community, Dr. Turner, exactly what Victoria is saying, that she was able to actually open up to someone. We saw a record number of suicides last year. What is going on here? And to the congressman's point, why don't we have a national plan to deal with this?
DR. SHAIRI TURNER:
This has hit us at such a record pace, right? So we, as Americans, have been dealing with suicide, depression, but, I think, in combination with the pandemic, with the isolation of the pandemic, we are not prepared on the prevention side. We are not equipping our first responders. And who are our first responders? They're parents, right? Are parents able to have these conversations with their children? I have two teens myself. Can you say to your child, "You're struggling, I see it. Are you having thoughts of death or dying?" Same thing for teachers. Are we equipping teachers, school counselors, to be at the front lines for our children?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you talk about being at the front lines in prevention, and I think about social media – exactly what I was talking to the Governors about. How should we address that piece of this?
FMR. REP. PATRICK J. KENNEDY:
First of all, I love what Governor Cox said: If this were any other issue we would move heaven and Earth to deal with it. In COVID we responded right away, everybody inoculation, everybody out there. The longest impact of COVID is going to be mental health, and yet, we don't treat it. We had Tony Fauci on there every night on the news. When are we going to get that same level of attention for these issues? That's what we have to do. And I love the fact that Victoria got care, but most young people can't get care. There's not enough providers. And back to the original point, there's no protections to make sure insurance companies, and frankly, the federal government, treat these illnesses just like any other set of illnesses.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Weigh in on that point, Dr. Turner.
DR. SHAIRI TURNER:
Yes, so access. Senator Fetterman's story was so powerful, right? Because he's coming forward, he's addressing the stigma, he's talking about his mental health. But he had a place to go –
FMR. REP. PATRICK J. KENNEDY:
That's right.
DR. SHAIRI TURNER:
– right? He was able. That’s unfortunately – his Black and Brown peers, male and female, would not have necessarily a Walter Reed –
FMR. REP. PATRICK J. KENNEDY:
That's right.
DR. SHAIRI TURNER:
– to check into, right? And fortunately, he did. But there are so many others who do not have access to that level of care.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Victoria, with the last few seconds we have here, how do you spread the word and get better access to care, especially for young people?
VICTORIA GARRICK BROWNE:
Well, I think, you know, social media can be part of the problem, but it also can be part of the solution. And I think if we can show up authentically online, if we can share our own struggles and kind of break up this highlight reel we have going on that's only contributing to this issue, that that could make a big difference. That's something I try to do online. And I'm grateful that we have other powerful voices, experts, medical professionals using social media to share tools, takeaways to help others.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Stay with us. We're going to continue this conversation on the other side of the break. You're all fantastic. When we come back, as rates of anxiety and depression skyrocket, Americans are not getting the mental health treatment they need. What about – what more can be done to improve access to mental health care, as we were just discussing. That's next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, and we are continuing our great panel discussion. Dr. Turner, we are talking about a lack of access. Talk about what the Crisis Text Line is and why that is aimed at trying to improve access.
DR. SHAIRI TURNER:
Yes, all the time. Crisis Text Line is a national not-for-profit that provides free 24/7 mental health support and crisis intervention. We are text-based only. So, we're meeting our teens where they are. And anyone can text HELP to 741741, and be received by a volunteer, trained, live crisis counselor, who is supervised by mental health professionals in English and in Spanish. So, we're addressing the bilingual issues; we are accessible to teens. Over 70% of our texters are under the age of 24. So we're reaching that vulnerable population, and we're reaching youth of color and LGBTQ+ youth as well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Congressman, weigh in on this. And you have talked about a lack of access and the fact that there's no national strategy to address this. What should a national strategy look like?
FMR. REP. PATRICK J. KENNEDY:
Well, when we have an emergency, FEMA comes in. They've got housing, job opportunities, support of this and that. We need a strategy that understands that housing is critical to address the homeless epidemic of people with severe mental illness and addiction. So you need housing. You need not only access to treatment, that treatment needs to be evidence-based. And unfortunately, we're still way behind the curve, where we have our providers really practice a cognitive behavioral therapy for specific diagnoses, where that's been shown to have the greatest outcome. If we get better outcomes, I guarantee you people will want mental health more, because they'll see the transformation that can happen, if people are delivered evidence-based treatments.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you're also making the argument there's a lack of access to good healthcare, as it relates to mental health services.
FMR. REP. PATRICK J. KENNEDY:
Yeah, it's quality and outcomes. And we don't really measure that because, let's just be honest, we're playing catch up on all of this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We are.
FMR. REP. PATRICK J. KENNEDY:
We have so underfunded this system for so long, why is it a big surprise that we don't have enough providers in the field? We don't pay them a fraction. The public model, Medicare and Medicaid, pay only a fraction of what they pay other professionals. Now you, Dr. Turner, you are at the lower end of the totem pole. Commercial insurers then take 70% of that. So by the end of the day, people who are providing this care get paid peanuts.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
DR. SHAIRI TURNER:
We have a workforce issue –
FMR. REP. PATRICK J. KENNEDY:
Major.
DR. SHAIRI TURNER:
– is what he's saying. And we need not just to increase that pipeline, start paying providers what they need to be paid, ensuring that there are providers for all different demographics. Because quite honestly, people sometimes feel more comfortable speaking to someone who looks like themselves.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I do want to talk about this moment that we're in. We are heading into the new year. Victoria, you have spoken very personally about how at the height of your college career you experienced burnout. And I think the holidays, heading into the new year, it's a time when people just feel burnt out. Why are people so vulnerable in these moments, and what is your message to them about getting through the tough times that they might be feeling right now?
VICTORIA GARRICK BROWNE:
Yeah, and I think we all kind of relate to that, and I think it's the irony of "this should be the happiest time of year," and so you inflict that guilt on yourself of, "I don't deserve to be feeling this way. I shouldn't bring other people's spirit down." But really, it's so important to prioritize ourselves and our own mental health, taking a look at our habits. You know, I recently moved my phone charger to the office, because if I wake up and I look at social media, and I go to bed and look at social media, I'm constantly comparing online, and I'm having too much information at one time. So, I think it's looking at our habits, having open conversations with loved ones as well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You talk about how damaging that comparison can be when you open up a social media app, and you're looking at someone's life who looks perfect.
VICTORIA GARRICK BROWNE:
Completely. And I think, you know, students these days, it's like you talk more with your thumbs than your tongues. Post-Millennials are the first generation – first generation born and raised in an exclusively social media environment. You have 5,000 friends online, show up to campus and don't feel like you have one person to connect with. We are so connected – more connected than we've ever been – yet disconnected at the same time.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Congressman, you've talked about how challenging the holidays can be. The Surgeon General has warned about loneliness, how much of a threat that is in this fight.
FMR. REP. PATRICK J. KENNEDY:
Well, let me just go back to the idea of access, because right now in the crisis, you get so many denials of care. Now, you remember Purdue Pharma, and everyone's families were throwing bottles at these Purdue Pharma, the Sacklers. Insurance companies, you know, Purdue started the fire. Fire was raging. Insurance companies and the federal government could've put out those flames. But did they? No. The rates of denial, pre-authorization concurrent with the retroactive review, means that they're squeezing the system, even when we need mental health the most. So I want to thank the Biden Administration. They’ve put teeth into the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act. I guarantee you the insurers are screaming right now. They're going to come to the Hill and try to push that back in the next few months. I'm signaling you because this fight is in those areas. If people watching this broadcast want to be involved, that's when we need to come forward as consumers and families of consumers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Dr. Turner, the Congressman is talking about what has been done so far. What more needs to be done? What role can the government play?
DR. SHAIRI TURNER:
Right. So we have to invest in the crisis continuum. We have prevention all the way out to acute and chronic care. And it's building out that system, it's meeting the needs with mobile crisis units, with organizations like Crisis Text Line and 988, so that everyone gets the right care at the right time for the right diagnosis.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Victoria, finally to you, your message to young people who are watching this and might be feeling that loneliness that the Surgeon General talked about?
VICTORIA GARRICK BROWNE:
My message to young people watching this is that they are worthy of seeking help. You don't have to get to a place where you're diagnosed with depression or a mental illness to be able to have that tough conversation, to go in to make that appointment, to confide in a loved one, at the very least. So, you're worthy. Reach out, let someone know how you're feeling.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you all have such a powerful message. Thank you so much for making us smarter and better on this really important topic. We appreciate it. When we come back, what to expect from this broadcast in 2024.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Before we let you go, the team here at Meet the Press and I want to leave you with our vision for the new year as we approach what will undoubtedly be a complicated election season. We will seek to help you – our viewers – navigate it all by highlighting voices from across this political spectrum and beyond. Yes, we will hear from the candidates, but we will also talk to community leaders, authors, advocates and everyone in between to build upon the great tradition of this show, which is about accountability and earning your trust. Meet the Press has always been a place for diverse voices and challenging conversations. It is essential to our democracy and who we are as a country. On behalf of everyone here at Meet the Press, we wish you a very happy and healthy New Year. That's all for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.
